View Full Version : Injector problems
opiekelly
09-05-2002, 16:56
Has anyone determined the real solution to injector failure? I had 4 replaced and it still knocks at idle. I have seen several post for failed or clogged injectors. I only have 10k on my truck and always use premium fuel.
<p><br />- <a href="http://pub.barnstormdesign.com/duramax/DSCN0025.JPG" target="_blank">dirty injector</a></p>
Thanks
opiekelly,
Was it failure or dirty? My truck will knock hot occasionally at idle but a slight raise in idle speed eliminates the noise.....I have done premature filter changes since day one....I have experienced no power loss as I can detect .... I would assume failure would be with loss of power..No? Have you experienced that? The only thing that I would assume that could cause blockage would be dirty fuel getting by the filter or certain so called cleaning additives......
MAC
opiekelly
09-06-2002, 07:13
The injectors have not failed, just dirty and out of balance. If you look at the web link above in my first post it is a picture of my dirty injector. When my truck hits 190-200 degrees it will knock quite loud, sounds just like rod knocking. I have used Stanadyne in the past and the knocking went away after a tank of fuel. The dealer changed the fuel filter and fuel seperator and replaced 4 injectors. Not sure what the real problem is, poor fuel filter, poor fuel or ???
I had my #1 injector fail at 12K miles. Rough idle and the entire truck would shake at 1300 RPM's in neutral.
Dealer said the injector was "torn up" and I was running on 7 cylinders.
I think we use Bosch injectors. They should be the best.
Are there additives we can use that will not void the warranty and will keep this crap off the injectors?
opiekelly
09-06-2002, 15:46
The mechanic recommended Stanadyne. The shop formen is opening a techincal case with GM for answers to the injectors sticking. He said several trucks have come in recently with sticky injectors. I also asked him if there were any new revisions to the injectors, he said no. The 03 Dodge is going to have a Bosch common rail system with pilot injection, wonder how they will do.
opiekelly
09-08-2002, 15:46
When I was driving home today I was leaving a light and I heard this loud diesel, looked next to me and nothing(expecting a dodge). It was my truck. After the noise I could barley make it through the light. I could only go 5 mph. Looked in my rear view mirror and there was a lot of blueish white smoke. Got it into a parking lot and shut it down. Opened the hood to check for anything obvious. Started it back up and it puffed blueish white smoke but then it stopped. Full power was restored. I don't think it was limp mode because this was ultra limp mode. I guess I better wait tell my other 4 injectors come in before driving this thing.
Maybe you guys could install a filter near the tank that traps finer particles. I know GM should fix it but it would help if dirt is the problem.
I have a 2002 3500 with the Duramax and had great things to say about it until it got 91,000 miles on it. At 91,000 it blew 2 injectors and at 103,000 miles it blew another injector. The first 2 were covered by waranty and on the 3rd Chevy agreed to pay 75% of the part(no labor). I had them replace the other 5 injectors because they couldn't give me a reason for the failures and I couldn't afford the down time and expense to replace them one at a time. My part of the bill was $3600.00.
UPDATE **************
I now have 106,000 miles on my truck and blew one of the injectors that was replaced at 91,000 miles. The warranty for that injector was for 12,000 miles so I will also have to pay for it. I trailer about 35% of the time and am afraid to put a load of any kind on it anymore. I was going to trade for a Dodge with the Cummings engine, but wasn't quick enough. I am in contact with Dodge and Ford owners on a daily basis who are going 400,000 plus miles with injector problems. Does anyone have any ideas. Someone told me it could be the timing.
:mad:
[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: Merle ]</p>
Jim Rokon
10-07-2002, 12:56
With all the obvious concern about the cost of replacing fuel injectors, and with the culprit being erosion of the fuel injectors by particles in the diesel fuel; there surely must an optimum filtration system that we can put on (at any reasonable expense, under a few hundred dollars?) to permanently eliminate this problem. Is there a concensus of opinion on what can be done, what we should install to bring the micron size of the particles down to the necessary smaller size? I still only have 3400 miles on my Duramax and would like to avoid the future potential problems associated with dirty fuel. I am sure there are many others out there like me.
Black Dog
10-07-2002, 13:21
Because the fuel filter is on the suction line, it would be ill advised to try to add another filter, especially a finer one than what is on there now. This would lead to a higher vacuum level at the intake to the pump, which would have a high likelyhood of leading to an early demise for your fuel pump.
FightinTXag
10-07-2002, 15:10
Black Dog,
A finer filter will only hinder fuel flow if it has the same filtering surface area. If you could add a filter with finer media but greater filtering surface area, the high pressure pump won't be affected.
Black Dog
10-07-2002, 15:18
Any filter you "add" will affect the inlet vacuum level. If you were to replace the existing filter with a much larger but finer element, that could work.... maybe.
FightinTXag
10-07-2002, 15:58
It should be possible to add a finer filter with filtering surface area large enough that any change in what your calling "inlet vacuum pressure" would be negligible, resulting in no change in performance or longevity of the high pressure pump.
I don't think there is actually any "vacuum" pressure on the suction side of the high pressure pump. Remember, there is the low pressure pump taking fuel at atmospheric pressure and increasing that pressure to feed the high pressure pump.
Jim Rokon
10-07-2002, 16:04
OK, how about a manifold that allows 3 filters with a finer media, all operated on the manifold in a "PARALLEL" system. IN that way all three filters of a finer media are allowing diesel fuel to flow through at the same time, thus tripling the flow through area. Is there an engineer out there that could calculate what micron size we'd need if running two or three at once in parallel?
A machine shop could make one, and the hollow 3/4-16 thread is no big deal from McMaster-Carr catalog. It could be made out of aluminum and the bleeder device and other devices could be incorpoirated into it. If it is going to prevent a $4000. full replacement of all injectors out of the warranty term then it is worth doing now. We have a WEDM, EDM, CNC machine shop at my shop, maybe even we could make one. But we need engineering input on what to watch out for.
Idle_Chatter
10-07-2002, 18:48
FightinTXag, I don't believe that there is any "low pressure pump" on the Dmax. The high pressure pump "sucks" the fuel directly from the tank through the filter and that's why an air leak on the filter gaskets will shut you right down.
FightinTXag
10-07-2002, 21:40
There's no lift pump? Really? Hadn't looked for it just assumed it was there like on my 6.5L TD. You know what they say about assuming. :rolleyes: Oh well, learn something new everyday.
Idle_Chatter
10-08-2002, 05:04
Nope, no lift pump. I know that for sure because I spent some time under there cutting fuel lines and plumbing in my 6-way valve for the aux tank. I thought perhaps there might be two stages in the injector pump, because I gave up on getting service manuals a year ago. perhaps a booster pump with a 2 micron filter down on the frame rail is a possible solution to the fuel quality issue.
Jim Rokon
10-08-2002, 07:06
Can anyone address this possibility, a manifold that allows 3 filters with a finer media, all operated on the manifold in a "PARALLEL" system. IN that way all three filters of a finer media are allowing diesel fuel to flow through at the same time, thus tripling the flow through area. Is there an engineer out there that could calculate what micron size we'd need if running two or three at once in parallel?
A machine shop could make one, and the hollow 3/4-16 thread is no big deal from McMaster-Carr catalog. It could be made out of aluminum and the bleeder device and other devices could be incorpoirated into it. If it is going to prevent a $4000. full replacement of all injectors out of the warranty term then it is worth doing now. We have a WEDM, EDM, CNC machine shop at my shop, maybe even we could make one. But we need engineering input on what to watch out for.
You raise a good question I'm presently also wrestling with on my Duramax. I tell you what I have on a Ford diesel I keep in Mexico, where the fuel has caused me problems before. I Installed a RACOR fuel filter, the same I have on the diesel boat on the RH rear side wall of the engine compartment. Since the Ford does not have a primer pump at all, I also istalled a small fuel pump past the tank with a toggle switch under the dash. this helps fill the fuel filters and get rid of any air in the system.
The RACOR filter is easy to check, no tools reqired, since it fits on top of the clear plastic filter housing. I buy mine at Wes Marine for about $8. The Racor unit incorporates also a spinn filter/water separator which are maintenance free, except for manual draining from time to time.
A couple of years ago I got highly contaminated fuel, it must have been from the bottom of a rusty barrel. The RACOR filter cought most of the rust, til it completely plugged up and made my engine stall. I removed this filter and drained the rest of the fuel from the filter housing(no tools), filled the filter container with fuel using my $12 fuer pump, closed the filter housing and completed my trip. Upon arrival to civilization, I changed the OEM filter and inserted inserted a new RACOR filter.
Space around the Duramax is very limited. I'm not sure if a Racor will fit on the drivers side firewall. This seems to be the only spot left under the hood. Has anyonr got a better idea?
The filter on the Dmax is a Racor filter. You must be referring to a specific model?
Perhaps something like this?
http://www.parker.com/parkersql/default.asp?type=2&id=27
There are many options out there. This one mentions common rail fuel systems and also has a built in pump.
Steve
P.S. Click on "Fuel Conditioning" at above link.
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: YZF1R ]</p>
YZ,
I think that will be the ticket. Or something very similar.
Can any one tell us what the consequences of running 3-5psi into the engine fuel pump might be?
I called Diesel Injection Service this morning, looking for a Racor to add by my fuel selector valve. While I was on the line, they called Racor to find out what our filter rating is. It is 2 microns. They recommend a 30 micron as an add on, and I think I might use a 10. It does make me wonder what is really going on in the nozzles, and what else we might do.
As to 3 to 5 lbs pressure on the injection pump inlet, I can't imagine it being a problem, and in truth, it might not actually provide pressure at all if the suction is high enough.
chuntag95
10-09-2002, 16:12
Jim,
To answer your question, yes a parallel, multiple filter setup would probably work. You need flow requirements, not micron size. The media surface area and how small it filters gives a flow rate. There is some minimum flow you have to be able to maintain as some pressure/vacuum. Adding a pump to it to 1. purge the air and 2. eliminate the extra drag of the filters would be the best bet. The 3-5 psi will not do much except help to feed the 22,000 psi system. No issues there.
I thought I read somewhere that part of the fuel rail was coming apart and clogging the injectors :confused: If that is truely the case, then all the filters in the world will not help us.
Does anyone know what size the orafice is on the injectors? I am sure it has to be larger than 5 micron. A human hair is well over 100 microns in diameter.
KompressorMan
10-09-2002, 18:04
Parallel??? I think you guys mean to run the filters in series. If you ran in parallel, you would offer fuel to all three filters from the manifold inlet. In a series setup, you would go from the first filter, say 40 microns, into the second filter, say 10 microns then finally into the two micron final filter. I'm not sure this is a viable idea because typically we are not seeing fuel filter blockage or a high delta P across the filter before the recommended change intervals. I could see using a one micron filter after the initial 2 micron, however the surface area of the filter would have to be incrementally larger to keep the delta P within reason.
Herb
Agreed that the filters ought to be in series. Objective is to prolong the change-out intervall of the OEM filter, make filter change simple, save costs and build in an increased filtering capacity before your filter clogs up.
On concerns about the pressure drop, I'm not sure if anyone had reached the point of engine stall due to a clogged filter. I have on the Ford diesel and I tell you it's no fun when you are out in the boondocks in Mexico where even in towns diesel fuel filters are not available. The advise to carry a spare is a good idea, but is not needed with a primary filter like the RACOR I talked before. I'm not sure if the concern is valid that an additional filter in series is valid. It caused no problems on the Ford. The primary filter will bring the fuel to the cleanliness level demanded by the injectors. The second OEM filter, assuming it was clean when the primary filter was installed will have a minimum pressure drop and stay clean as long as you use the primary filter. Why should it be a problem on the Duramax? Any thoughts on this?
chuntag95
10-10-2002, 11:29
Parallel would be to keep the delta pressure down. You could run 4 1.0 micron filters in parallel and get the same flow and pressure drop as a single 4 micron filter (assuming the same area for each filter). Running smaller filters in parallel allows you to use smaller size filters and still have the required flow. Now, it is a good point about the 40 to 10 to 1 series approch. In doing so, you will extend the life of all of the filter because they are staged to pull out different levels of contamination. That being said, you will have a much greater delta pressure accross the 3. Two different ways to get the same end results. Each has a positive and a negative.
Now, does anyone know about the debris coming off of the rails or the size of the injector orifice? That should tell you the requiements. If your filter is 2 micron and the orifice is 10, then additional filters won't do much, unless the effeciency at 2 micro is very poor. I would assume they would need at least a 75-90% effeciency to be able to call it a 2 micron filter. If you can see it, then the current filter should catch it. If the source is after the filter (I know I heard that somewhere) then a different part needs to be made to replace the one providing the crud in the injectors.
Just as a size reference, the human eye has trouble seeing below 50 microns and most people can't see anything that small. If you can see it it is big in microns.
I believe the new Cummins ISBe has the same type fuel rails as the Dmax. I would be surprised if they are having any king of problems with a simple "pipe".
If they are, it will cost them dearly. It's also possible a few contaminated or improperly plated parts passed through production.
[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
LanduytG
10-10-2002, 18:42
Hey Guys,
This has been a very interesting topic on another forum. Dirt is more then likely the whole problem with injectors failing early.
I have been working with George Morrison and doing some fuel sampling and you would not believe the crap you get from a place that you thought was good.
What I have learned from George is basically when you have a high pressure system like the Dmax and other modern diesels, you need extermly clean fuel. He was telling me about Cat having to replace injectors 2 and 3 times while still under warranty, and another customer of his was replacing injectors in school buses every 13-14,ooo miles. It all leads to dirty fuel.
I have been running what I thought was good fuel in my VW TDI for the last 24k miles. Well the fuel economy is way down and it smokes a little blue once in awhile. I am going to pull the injectors and have them checked, and I bet that I have some bad ones. Kind of the same store with my 95 6.5TD and those injectors only 52K on them.
The only way to get rid of the dirt is though better filtering. I have a Racor 2 micron on my truck and it took out 96% of the particles that are in the 5 micron range. It is this size that really can cause some wear.
I am going to try and come up with a filter system that will work on the Dmax.
Has anyone on the DP done any fuel sample analysis? If not spend a few bucks with George and get it done. You will not be sorry you did, plus you will know what you are getting. Get a sample at the pump when you fill and then a sample after the stock filter.
If you do this I believe you find out that dirt is the problem.
Greg
[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: LanduytG ]</p>
Maybe GM and Racor need to come up with a better filter for us. Is that too much to ask? Maybe one that still can be installed on the same mount.
opiekelly
10-10-2002, 19:04
Well I have my truck back and it now has had all 8 injectors replaced. 12K on the truck now. Still no answer from GM on what caused the failure.
opiekelly
10-10-2002, 19:05
I should not say failure but malfunctioning.
LanduytG
Nice to see a fellow VW TDI'er here :)
When I talked to the Racor technical assistance last week they said the Dmax fuel filter that is currently used is a 2 micron filter. Did you get different information from them concerning the Dmax filter?
Regarding fuel pumps and injectors: In Cedar Rapids the city bus fleet switched to B20 biodiesel fuel last year. Their failure rate for fuel pumps and injectors has fallen dramatically (I don't recall the percentage, sorry). Theory is the extra lubricity offered by the soy diesel provides a film of protection on the pump and injectors that minimizes the abrassive effect of the dirt particles.
We run 10-30% blend of soy diesel in both our vehicles.
george morrison
10-11-2002, 07:22
As Greg has shared, a major study undertaken by Southwest Research determined that the 5 to 10 micron particulate is *the* fuel system/injector destroyer. With some fuels containing as much as 300,000,000 (yes, million) particles per GALLON, it does not take long to ream out an injector passage, creating streaming, less than perfect combustion, accelerated cylinder wear (reduced lubrication), etc. etc.
Three weeks ago I had a CAT D-10 dozer lose a cylinder completely as a result of a bad injector. How bad? On a Monday morning start-up the piston was rattling in the liner, sounding like someone was hammering in the engine. Partial rebuild on an engine that was at 2,000 hours into its 18,000 hour life.
Regarding the Duramax 2 micron filter. As we are finding out on the TDI site, there are 2 micron filters and then there are REAL 2 micron filters. It is easy to throw around specs but, in reality, providing a high level of 5 to 10 micron filtration is extremely difficult to achieve and few filters deliver.
If someone would be so kind to do a 'before & after' fuel analysis on their Duramax I would be more than happy to pay for one of the two kits..
I have talked with John Kennedy regarding this and it appears there is no easy way to accomplish the "after"...
Irrespective, I will be very, very surprised if our OEM fuel filter removes much more than 50% of the 5 to 10 micron throughput... Many filters achieve their rating in perfect laboratory conditions with segmented particles in a multi-pass throughput. Working on a vibrating, real world environment is very challenging.
There is no amount of additive or lubricity enhancer that will 'soothe' particulate abrasion. The ISO cleanliness system of wear determination was originally developed for pure hydraulic fluid applications; abrasives are abrasives and in high pressure fuel (which is a variation of hydraulic system)spell short life for components..
George Morrison, STLE CLS
[ 10-11-2002: Message edited by: george morrison ]</p>
chuntag95
10-11-2002, 07:52
Could you drain the filter and then reprime and take what is in the center of the filter?
George, how much fuel do you need for a sample?
You are talking about the fuel analysis kit on your site, right?
[ 10-11-2002: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>
george morrison
From LanduytG's fuel analysis on the VW TDI with the Racor 2 micron filter it looked like it did very well in real world application at filtering ~95% of the 2 micron and above particles. Is the Racor filter medium used in this test different than the filter media in the Duramax filter?
george morrison
10-11-2002, 09:13
No, to the best of my knowledge the filter on our Duramax is not the same filter that Greg tested. Greg's is a stand-alone Racor unit.
And yes, the fuel analysis kit on the web site is the one I am talking about. It would be ideal to capture the return line to the tank as this would give an indication of what the fuel system actually saw. A good solid fuel output directly from the fuel filter would also but difficult. Utilizing the drain at the fuel filter housing would introduce contaminants, I believe.
It is of the utmost importance to capture a pure, representative sample. Even the sampling process itself must be done properly: i.e. a 2 dump sample. Capture a sample, put on cap, shake, dump, capture a sample, shake, dump, third sample a keeper.. Even residual dust in a sterile bottle can alter readings, it is that sensitive..
George Morrison
[ 10-11-2002: Message edited by: george morrison ]</p>
I re-read LanduytG's post on the VW TDI sight and I was mistaken on how the test was performed. It wasn't on the VW TDI, but on his Chevy 6.5 TD. Is that correct LanduytG? He also said the Racor part number is R45S.
george morrison
10-11-2002, 09:33
The fuel sample kit available at http://www.avlube.com/ comes with a sterile sample bottle, secondary containment, etc. specifically for diesel fuel. It is a larger sample bottle than that used for used engine oil, as slightly more product is needed for the fuel testing procedure.
George Morrison
[ 10-11-2002: Message edited by: george morrison ]</p>
chuntag95
10-11-2002, 09:37
George,
I will crawl under and see what it would take to get into the return fuel line. I have to put on my new Bilsteins anyway. smile.gif I might take you up on your offer of a split. I too would be interested in the data.
LanduytG
10-11-2002, 09:59
TDIwyse
Yes the test was done on the 6.5TD. I have had that filter on the truck for 2 or 3 years now, but I always used the standard R45P which is a 30 micron filter. George and I wanted to see how the R45S which is the 2 micron performed. Both George and I were very surprised to see how well it worked.
The one thing that has me concerned is winter fuel, will the 2 micron be to restrictive when it gets to 0* out. This unit does have a fuel bowl heater and I do have a sock made out of insulation to put on it to help hold the heat in. The sock might not be needed if it was not on the frame where all the cold can suck out the heat.
I am not only going to get the VW TDI injectors check, but I think I am going to pull the 6.5TD injectors and have them checked as well. Those only have 52K miles on them but I am beginning to smoke a little blue.
Greg
LanduytG
Thanks for the feedback. From my conversation with the Racor technical support the filter media of the S type filters (2 micron) is the same. It would lead me to believe that the 2 micron filter for the Dmax would be just as good as your results on the 6.5 TD is. It'll be interesting the see the results.
george morrison
10-11-2002, 11:00
Chris,
Thank you so much! We would need to get some throughput on the return line for purge, then do the double dump.. John Kennedy thought it would be possible but is just too busy to investigate right now. By doing the 'before and after' as Greg has done, we will then "know" what we are dealing with. If we do not have a 90%+ effective fuel filtration for the 5 to 10 micron component taking place on our Duramax, our fuel injectors cannot/will not last..
Depending on how dirty a fuel one is using, the affect on fuel injector life can be drastically shortened. I have seen injectors fail at 95,000 miles due to running dirty fuel and a 50% efficient fuel filter.
I have an owner operator customer who lost 4 $480 injectors at 125,000 miles..
The dirt in fuel situation is a major problem in the U.S. in that we have these wonderful electronically controlled high fuel pressure systems that begin to self-destruct the moment they drive out the door. Our fuel standards was shaky for the 3,000 psi injectors of the past so the dirty fuel we are getting is not the manufacturer's, distributor or end seller's fault. Thus, we must ensure that we have fuel filtration that is going to capture the 5 to 10 micron component on our vehicles to ensure long life injector and pump life AND optimum performance during that life..
Injectors do fail, however, leading up to failure the injectors spray excess liquid fuel, causing accelerated cylinder wear, excess soot and reduced engine performance, fuel mileage...
Enough lecture for now.. Obviously I feel quite strongly about this subject.. :)
George Morrison
george morrison
10-11-2002, 15:45
I contacted Racor today and they insist that the INF4598 fuel filter is indeed a 2 micron beta 200 (stopping 98% of +2 micron material) or better! It is the OEM filter. He did indicate that about 10,000 miles is about the limit, of course dependent on how bad the fuel is dirt-wise..
I will be *very* happily amazed if this is indeed correct. It will be the first OEM (except for CAT) which will have achieved an OEM 2 micron fuel filtration; which is exactly what we need for long injector life.
However, he also indicated that the Bosch pump will suck a golf ball through a 200 foot garden hose. i.e. IF the fuel filter should become clogged, the fuel pump is so strong that media rupture is not out of the question..
Hopefully some enterprising mechanically adept person can do a return line sample and we will all know once and for all what we have, for sure..
George Morrison, STLE CLS
chuntag95
10-13-2002, 08:51
George,
Okay, I checked it out and I think I can pull loose the return line at the fuel cooler. The hard part will be control of the line while pulling the sample. If it will gravity feed, then it shouldn't be too bad. If it will not, then the wife will have to be quick with the key. :eek: I am so glad she doesn't mine doing this kind of stuff. smile.gif I will go ahead and order a kit. I guess the best method would be to run her till she is almost out of fuel, take a sample at the pump and fill up the tank. Go home and take the sample from the cooler line. Any thoughts?
George, I ordered a fuel analysis kit and some grease fitting covers. I am the Chris from Rowlett if you want to put in the second kit in the same box. Let me know.
[ 10-13-2002: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>
George Morrison, I have a question. You said "It will be the first OEM (except for CAT) which will have acheieved an OEM 2 micron fuel filtration;" would you elaborate??; Which engines or filters??
Filters for the HEUI fuel systems?? The 3126 engine?? Thank you... bob
I posted the following in the RACOR/OEM Fuel Filter Test thread before I saw this one. Seems like it fits better here. I was thinking about adding a Baldwin DAHL 100 filter/water separator with 2-micron elements to my new 2003 (3 day old) D/A. I have a new filter that I bought for 98 6.5 but never got around to installing. The DAHL 100 has a specified flow rate of 40 GPH (65 max) with a flow resistance of 0.75 in Hg. The flow rate for a truck going 70 MPH and getting 10 MPG is 7 GPH so it would seem that the filter pressure drop would have a negligible effect. It also has heater to prevent waxing in the winter. Baldwin claims the DAHL eliminates virtually 100% of water in fuel too. The only problem with the DAHL 100 is its size – 12 inches high 6 inches wide. They also come in larger sizes and with dual manifolds. See www.baldwinfilter.com/products/dahl.html
Also see www.baldwinfilter.com/engineer/95_11.html for a good explanation of filter micron ratings. The values typically quoted for filters are the nominal Beta=2 rating which are for 50% efficiency. That means a filter with a nominal 2-micron rating is 50 % efficient at removing 2-micron particles.
For example the Baldwin B50 Oil Bypass filter I used on my 98 6.5 Diesel was rated nominal 2 microns (Beta2=2)and Absolute 12 microns (Bet**2=75). The 12 micron absolute rating means the B50 filter is 98.7% efficient at removing. Manufactures dont like to give out this number because the difference between Beta=2 and Beta=75 ratings is not widely understood. It seems we need to know what the real Beta75 rating for the OEM RACOR filter.
[ 10-13-2002: Message edited by: jbplock ]</p>
george morrison
10-14-2002, 11:28
We need to achieve 2 micron Beta 200 rating for fuel filtration to effectively minimize the 5 to 10 micron wear particle. The 5 to 10 micron particle is *the* system life shortener. We have tested both the CAT and Baldwin CAT replacement and it is indeed a 2 micron Beta 200. The same efficiency is true for the Racor stand alone that Greg tested with his 6.5TD.
The Duramax Bosch pump is very, very stout, easily able to do a 60 inch suction. Our current filter is supposedly rated at 6 inches restriction so adding additional filtration to our system would pose little problem other than extending pump and fuel system life by processing cleaner fluid.
We should have 2 test results by next week for the OEM fuel system tests, both before and after fuel with cetane, water content and ISO cleanliness dirt level reported. i.e. the 'Rest of the Story'!
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants
car of the week
10-14-2002, 12:52
ok...just to get things stright, the OEM filter that is in the truck and the one we can buy from the dealer are the "good" racor filter? parts says it is an AC Delco filter, did AC outsource to racor? i have 7500 miles on my dmax and i live in CA. i was just back in our service department and the diesel mechanic was replacing a set of injectors because 4 of them were bad...the truck had 10,322 miles on it! our fuel here is notoriously bad and i am worried this issue of shortened injector/pump life. any info would be appreciated
Ryan
george morrison
10-15-2002, 07:35
Yes, the OEM filter and the RACOR are the same according to Racor. As to the real world filtration performance of the GM filter & the RACOR, we will soon find out as several folks have been kind enough to do a 'before and after' fuel test. The particle count portion of the fuel test will tell us exactly what the filter efficiency in the >2, >5 and >15 micron size component.
We should have the 'before & after' fuel analysis results by late next week.
George Morrison
I find this discussion very interesting. Some clarification to my previous comments and questions raised.
The Racor filter I use on the diesel boat and as a pre-filter on the Ford diesel truck has the part number 500FGSS-2 and costs about $175 at West Marine. The housing is of some kind of see- through polycarbonate, lightly braun colored.The filters cost about $9 and are available for 2-micron, #2010FM, 10-micron, #2010TM and 30 micron, #2010PM filtration.
The filter is suitable up to a flow rate of 60GPHR. This higher capacity filtering rate needed for boats should result in a lower pressure drop across the filter, since the truck burns much less fuel per hour. This spin filter includes also a water separator. Water in the fuel apparently is also damaging to the injectors.
Aside of the two diesel trucks and the Parker diesel boat, I also have two Mercedes diesel cars, a 1984 300TD and a 1985 300SD. Both these cars have 1/4 million miles on them and telling me that they are at least good for another 1/4 mill.
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