View Full Version : JUICE 1/4 MILE TIMES
PEANUTGRWR
06-04-2002, 08:27
I GOT MY JUICE BOX IN YESTERDAY AND IMMEDIATLEY TESTED IT WITH THE G-TECH. THE POWER IS GREAT IT FELT LIKE IT HAD MORE POWER THAN I DID WITH PROPANE. AND TO NO AVAIL AFTER TESTING IT WITH THE G-TECH IT DID. I RAN A 14.67 IN 92 DEGREE HEAT AND OVER 5000 DENSITY ALTITUDE. YOU REAL RACERS KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS smile.gif THATS SOMEWHERE DOWN IN THE LOW 14'S IF CORRECTED. I TRIED STACKING THEM AND JK IS RIGHT IT DOESNT WORK WELL. ILL BE RUNNING IT THIS FRIDAY AT THE TRACK AND WILL HAVE MORE ACCURATE READINGS TO REPORT. :cool:
ford2chevy
06-04-2002, 08:33
what were your settings when you stacked them. the only setting that set a code was juice at 3 and VA at 35HP. Mine didn't run real good at first but after a day the trans seem to adapt to the power. There was a little more smoke but a lot more than Juice or VA alone.
Rob,
Not sure if your Juice has timing in it, BUT my suggestion would be to take our word for it for the time being, and discontinue stacking. In my ears, the engine just does NOT sound happy. In time things may work out, but I think there is just too much timing, and/or a conflict going on.
ford2chevy
06-04-2002, 08:57
Do you know what version has timing? I will look tonight to see what version I have.
I don't doubt your knowledge of the DMax, but if it is so bad, why am I not setting codes in any other combinations than one?
[ 06-04-2002: Message edited by: ford2chevy ]</p>
Only Edge knows that, but from what I understand, only the very early ones lacked timing.
You MAY get away with it as I havent tried it at lower levels, but it just sounds unhappy. The computer cannot tell you if your timing is being destructive to the engine...
It definitely would be nice to know what codes are being set!
PEANUTGRWR
06-04-2002, 13:46
I HAD BOTH BOXES SET ON SETTING 3. IT DIDNT SOUND TO GOOD SO I ABORTED THE TEST. IM GOING TO FILL THE DRUG TANK THIS EVENING SO ILL REPORT LATER ON WHAT IT RUNS WITH JUICE AND EVEN MORE JUICE :D :D
Silver Bullet
06-04-2002, 20:17
PEANUTGRWR - Shoot me an e-mail. I have some unrelated questions for you.
smbrown819@yahoo.com
Christian Roth
06-05-2002, 11:28
You can stack the boxes just fine without too much of a problem; if you take the timing out of one of the boxes.
Our Duramax dyno'd at 405HP with just over 900ftlbs once the AMP and the Dynomite were configured correctly. The dynomite should be good for an additional 30-50 HP over the present Juice/AMP box.
Althought the Duramax will run with a ridicalous amount of timing advance, it is obvisouly not the best thing for the engine, especially when you run propane. We have the ability to remove the timing from the Dynomite as so should some other shops around the country.
Question, wil BD take the timing out of a Dynomite for somebody?
Just as a heads up after Friday night. We will report 1/4 mile times for a '00 SC 2WD 373 auto PSD w/ an 80 HP program from a Superchip Micro Tuner. This will as good of comparison as we can get for Peanuts truck. The only difference being two and four wheel drive. Although I have to tell ya peanut, I don't think he is near as siked up about racing you as he was. :eek: Again, this should give everyone a good idea how one mod on one truck compares to one mod on another. :D
Later
Seven
PEANUTGRWR
06-06-2002, 16:52
HEY SEVEN, TELL HIM I SAID------DONT BE SHY----BE NEXT smile.gif IT WONT HURT LONG LMAO tongue.gif tongue.gif
Too bad the rest of y'all can't make it to the strip. :D We gonna have a hot time in the ol' town tomorrow!! I'll bet we can talk him into at least one run :D :D .
Later
Seven
PEANUTGRWR
06-08-2002, 08:56
WELL I RAN MY TRUCK LASTNIGHT AT THE STRIP. THE QUICKEST RUN WAS A 14.92 ET. I FEEL I COULD HAVE PUT UP FASTER RUN BUT THE 285'S I HAVE ON IT BOUNCE TO MUCH OFF OF THE LINE. THIS PARTICULAR RUN IT BOUNCED RATHER VIOLENTLY SO I LET OUT OF IT THEN GOT BACK ON IT I FEEL IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A MID 14 SECOND RUN IF I HADNT HAD TO LET OUT OF IT. THIS WAS ALSO AT 5700 FT DENSITY ALTITUDE TOO. CAN ANY OF YOU REAL RACERS CALCULATE THAT BACK TO SEA LEVEL??? I MADE RUNS WITH JUICE ALONE AND WITH PROPANE ALONE. THE RUNS WITH JUICE ALONE WERE FASTER THAN WITH PROPANE ONLY SO I GUESS ITS SAFE TO SAY THAT THE JUICE BOX HELPS MORE THAN PROPANE-------AND GUYS THATS SOMETHING FOR THE JUICE CAMP TO BRAG ABOUT!!! IF YOUR WANTING AN ADD ON BOX JUICE IS THE WAY TO GO IVE RAN VAN AAKEN AND JUICE -----JUICE IS LEAPS AND BOUNDS AHEAD OF VAN AAKEN. ILL ALSO ADD THAT THERE WAS A PSD THERE LASTNIGHT THAT RAN A RESPECTABLE 15.20 OR 30 -----OH WELL STILL AINT A DMAX!!! :D :D
Peanutgrwr: To clarify, was that in 2wd or 4wd that you ran at dragstrip? If 4wd, did you brake torque it for launch, and what was your 60 foot time, and mph at end of quartermile?
Thanks, great information!!!
PEANUTGRWR
06-08-2002, 09:46
YES IT WAS A 4WD LAUNCH AND I DID BREAK STALL IT UP. I DIDNT STALL IT UP AND BUILD AS MUCH BOOST ON THE LINE AS IM CAPABLE OF BECAUSE OF THE VIOLENT FRONT END HOP OR SHUTTER DUE TO SPIN.I WAS LEAVING THE LINE WITH ABOUT 10 PSI OF BOOST. WITH JUICE ALONE I CAN STALL IT UP TO 20 PSI OF BOOST AND GET A BETTER TIME IF THE FRONT END WOULDNT DO THE BUNNYHOP ;) I DONT KNOW IF YOU HAVE SAW MY EARLIER POST ABOUT ME COLLAPSING THE TIE RODS DUE TO THIS OR NOT BUT I SURE DONT WANT THIS HAPPENING AGAIN tongue.gif NEXT TIME I GO IM PUTTING MY STOCK TIRES ON AS THEY DONT DO THIS. FOR MY 60 FT TIMES ILL HAVE TO FIND THE TIME SHEET ILL GET BACK TO YOU LATER ON THAT
I'm not sure of Peanut's 60' but his Dads' truck with just the juice was running a 1.98. That was on a 15.2 run. The PSD ran a best ET of 15.6 with the 80 hp superchip program. I will add that this PSD will beat most of the others around without the chip, it is hands down the fastest PSD I have ever driven, without a trailer that is.
Later
Seven
Peanutgrwr:
Wow, can break all 4 tires loose on launch! SpeedZone PowerPlay won't do that from what I've seen.
Got a 15.1 @ 85.5mph, 1.99 60 foot time with it though, in 2001 Sierra 2500HD D/A Extended Cab Longbed, fully optioned out.
I am near buying this Juice box but want to know the quartermile MPH and if you have it, vehicle weight (or specs of bed/cabsize etc; that lets us calculate the hp figure, when you have the vehicle weight). Find that timeslip! smile.gif
Thanks again!!
[ 06-09-2002: Message edited by: xwing ]</p>
PEANUTGRWR
06-09-2002, 13:07
XWING, THE 14.92 RUN WAS AT 5700 FT DENSITY ALTITUDE AND THE 60 FT TIME FOR THIS RUN WAS 1.89 AND FINAL MPH WAS 89.9. DO YOU HAVE ANY WAY OF CONVERTING THIS OVER TO A SEA LEVEL TIME? IF SO I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. YES WITH THE JUICE BOX I CAN BREAK ALL FOUR LOOSE ON TAKEOFF :D OH YEA MY TRUCK WEIGHS 6400 LBS. IF YOU NEED ANYOTHER INFO ABOUT IT I THINK MY PICS IN THE SIG WILL HELP. BY THE WAY WHAT ALL MODS DO YOU HAVE ON YOUR TRUCK???
[ 06-09-2002: Message edited by: PEANUTGRWR ]</p>
Peanuts truck would try to go about 4 feet sideways on takeoff when in 4wd. :eek:
2wd launches didn't get too good of ET's and it seemed like a few times it was spinning halfway down the track.
I have to add, you don't realice the size of a 5" exhaust untill you see it in person. All I can say is don't leave that thing parked too long or you might end up with a mess of coyotes using it for a den. :D
Maverick
06-09-2002, 15:27
Well, I don't feel so bad now. I ran a 15.388 at 88.74mph with my 7300lb truck. I don't know how you guys are saying you are breaking the tires loose in 4wd :confused: After my burnout at the line, I had a hard time breaking the duals loose in 2wd. It sticks pretty good. It just doesn't seem like its possible. :rolleyes:
Good day gentlemen. :D
PEANUTGRWR
06-09-2002, 15:48
NO REASON TO MAKE UP A BIGFISH STORY HERE. JUST PLAIN FACTS AND TRUTH SPOKEN HERE. SEVEN YOU CARE YOU ELABORATE ON THIS ANY----HE WAS THERE HE SAW IT ALONG WITH ABOUT 200 OTHERS :D
7mmSTW,
So true about the 5"ER ... I've said it after I seen one ... The should come with a "WARNING" . Don't play ,on,around , or IN ....... Like garbage dumpsters have .......
They are Huge .......
MAC tongue.gif
Maverick,
Oh I believe it ...... Some thing to remember .....
We got a lot of contact in one spot out back, on both sides ..... Total 28"-30" in the back ..... Thats a lot of meat on the ground ..... I'm sure PEANUT is holding a good brake stand too ....... To bust all four ..... If I hold a brake stand ,I'll bust all "four" thru two-three gears ,out back ...........Depends how much JUICE I'M ON ..... A dually will always have better traction then some light weight 2500 HD ....... tongue.gif
MAC :D :D
[ 06-09-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Maverick, I was riding along on most of the runs. We were spinning HARD in 4wd. We almost hit the guard rail once because the pickup was moving sideways while pointing straight.
There are some correction factors available for normally aspirated (nonturbo) engines at altitudes.
The issue of how much those corrections apply to TURBO vehicles is open. The turbocharger takes air of whatever density, and if the air is thinner it just spins that much FASTER until it compresses it, so hp loss isn't same as nonturbo.
For instance, we all know how going up tall Colorado etc mountain passes on the freeway, our turbo trucks (or cars) seem to go great, while nonturbo cars/trucks start REALLY WHEEZING/losing alot more hp.
So, correction factors for NA cars used on turbo cars might give an overly optimistic set of numbers. We had a guy with 3000GT VR4 twinturbo who lives high in Colorado, come down to Ohio to a drag shootout. He was expecting the correction-factor times, but ended up about EXACTLY what he did in Colorado! Those turbos spin!
Hate to say this, your driver don't know how to drive when adversity strikes! Got to know when to stay-in and when to get-out! If you don't, it's crash city and (with our cars) no insurance.
PEANUTGRWR
06-09-2002, 18:49
JOE G, ID SAY THE DRIVER DONE WELL FOR SOMEONE WHO DOESNT KNOW WHAT HES DOING SINCE HE KEPT THE SHINY SIDE UP :D
PEANUTGRWR,
No bruises either ...... ;)
Every day above ground is good day too.......
MAC smile.gif
To defend the driving abilities of Peanutgrwr. He did fine in getting the pickup down the track without hitting the guardrail. :D I have been in a LOT of wild situations and this was pretty mild in comparison to most. All he did was correct a little bit and we were off. There was NO lack in skill involved. To someone from Eastern NM or West Texas that has chased coyotes and pretty much perfected the Quote "hold my beer, watch this!! :eek: :eek: there was no problem whatsoever. tongue.gif
Later
Seven :D
Maverick
06-10-2002, 14:43
Ok, I'll take your word for it. Maybe I should take the juice off the 3500 and put it on the 2500HD and give it a try myself. I have full coverage. :D
Maverick
I was just jackin with PEANUTGRWR, we have no insurance on our racecars, you wreck'um you write'um off. I am going to try mine next chance I get and see if I can better the 1/4 mile time that PEANUTGRWR got, it's hard to get a good launch in a 2/wd with the Juice.
More explanation, my truck is not my racecar, or is it? Love this truck, it hauls a--!
[ 06-10-2002: Message edited by: Joe.G ]</p>
PEANUTGRWR
06-10-2002, 19:58
JOE G, LETS GO HALVES ON A SET OF M/T 16 SLICKS. BE GLAD YOU DONT HAVE A 4X4 OR YOU MIGHT HAVE THE BENT TIE ROD SYNDROME THAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED. :eek: :eek: XWING, HAVE YOU GOTTEN THAT HP FACTORED OR FIGURED OR WHATEVER YOUR DOING WITH ALL THAT INFO I HAVE GIVEN YOU. AT LEAST YOU COULD TELL ME WHAT YOURE DOING WITH IT SINCE IM THE GUINEA PIG ON ALL THIS SPEED STUFF ;) OH YEA ONE MORE THING XWING I DUNNO IF I AGREE WITH YOU ON THERE BEING NO DENSITY ALTITUDE ADJUSTMENT FOR TURBOED ENGINES. IF THERE ISNT WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE USE WATER INJECTION DOESNT THAT MAKE THE AIR CHARGE MORE DENSE OR IS IT ME THAT IS DENSE??? DONT ANSWER THE LATTER. I HAVE NOTICED THAT MY TRUCK PICKS UP QUITE A BIT WHEN THE TEMP GOES DOWN AND THE HUMIDITY GOES UP MEANING THE DENSITY ALTITUDE IS GOING DOWN. FALLOW ME????? :confused: :confused:
[ 06-10-2002: Message edited by: PEANUTGRWR ]</p>
Russ Denman
06-10-2002, 21:29
PEANUTGRWR,
Humid air is less dense.
The only other catch is how the DMAX compute boost pressure. If it is using the static pressure at the current altitude then the DMAX will produce more power at SL than 5K feet. If the boost is calculated based on a fixed reference independent of altitude (ie: a spring) then the oxygen loaded into the cylinder will be the same at the same boost regardless of the altitute. :eek:
[ 06-10-2002: Message edited by: Russ Denman ]</p>
Altitude costs turbo engines hp also, just not AS MUCH as it does nonturbos. The compressor can spin FASTER against less air density, until it reaches equilibrium of forces with exhaust turbine driving force again; so faster compressor spin takes "more gulps of less air" thus making up some for altitude. That's why turbo engines do better in mountains and piston airplanes at high altitudes...they can make up SOMEWHAT for altitude.
Here is a good reference site for NONturbo correction factors:
http://rshelq.home.sprynet.com/calc_hp_dp.htm
At known 5700 feet/92 F. and assuming barometer 29.92, dewpoint 58, you were
making about 77.5% of "Ideal SAE J1349" dyno hp.
Good for bragging rights maybe but on turbo, in my opinion, is overestimating the altitude loss.
For more realistic horsepower estimates, there are a bunch of "hp calculators" available online. Most use similar formulas; some are for crank hp, some for wheel hp, some better ones give BOTH and TELL you what driveline percent loss they are assuming for that crank hp number.
Here is one, uses 20% driveline loss for crank hp number:
http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm
and another, uses 25% driveline loss for crank hp number:
http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/hpcalc.html
Based on average of 3 different ones, based on your truck's quartermile mph and weight (I guessed 6250lbs with driver?)
wheel hp = 360; crank hp = 432 (20% loss) or 450 (25% loss).
Compares to SpeedZone PowerPlay on Sierra 2500HD D/A 4x4 Extended Cab Longbed 6650 lbs with 3/8 tank fuel
wheel hp = 333; crank hp = 400 (20%) or 416 (25%)
So, based on these numbers, Juice Box makes ABOUT 30 more wheel hp than Power Play box, not taking any corrections into account. No matter how you slice it, that is a solid gain!
BTW, 1.89 60' is awesome!
Let's put this in laymans terms
Air density is measured as a column of air from sea level to say 5000 feet.
The higher you go the less 02 content,the humidity reduces the 02 content because it takes up space in the total air flow to the engine.
Air temp and low humidity can cause the altimeter to show you are below sea level, this is when your hot rod will haul a--. These conditions only happen close to the coast and not in the panhandle of Texas.
PEANUTGRWR
06-12-2002, 12:18
JOE G YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THAT NEVER HAPPENING IN THE TX PANHADLE. DRY AND HOT HERE IS ALL WE KNOW.
That's better than HOT & HUMID!
Got a set of 33-16-15 Hoosiers, be glad to let you try'um.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Joe.G ]</p>
a guy at work brought a G-tech and we tested my 02 3500 crew cab LB Duramax. I launched it in 2 wheel drive, brake stalled it with boost a almost 5lbs any more boost and tire spin was way too much. I still had alot of tire spin in first, but took off quickly. The times were as shown below.
0-60 7.05 sec
1/4 mile 89.6 mph
time 15.123
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